S4E14: Pregnancy and Parenthood in the Tech Industry With Vidya Srinivasan

This episode was transcribed with the help of an AI transcription tool. Please forgive any typos.

Laurence Bradford 0:06
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Laurence Bradford 1:19
In today's episode I talk with Vidya Srinivasan, a multi talented engineer, speaker and singer who works at Microsoft as a program manager. We talked about maternity leave, being a mom in tech, and fitting in hobbies alongside her career. Vidya Srinivasan is an engineer, a speaker and a singer. She works as a program manager and Microsoft speaks at Tech Conferences, performs with bands to raise money for nonprofits takes part and hack for good projects and a lot more. She has a bachelor's and a master's degree in computer science as well as a degree in AI Indian classical music. A few years into her career, she was profiled by Microsoft for her multi dimensional career, because she combines her love for engineering, singing, hacking, speaking in advocating for diversity all in tech. So if that wasn't enough, Vidya is also a new mom.

Laurence Bradford 2:19
Hey, Vidya. I'm so excited to have you on. Thank you for coming on the show.

Vidya Srinivasan 2:23
My pleasure to be here. Laurence. Thank you so much for having me on the show.

Laurence Bradford 2:26
Yes, of course. And we've connected a few times in the past. For the listeners. I'll link to both articles in the show notes. But I featured video in Forbes twice and in both articles, it related to motherhood and tech, and getting back to the full time job after maternity leave. So I'm really excited to talk about some of those things later in the show. But first, before we get going, is there anything in that intro you would like to elaborate on?

Vidya Srinivasan 2:54
I'm not really I think you did a pretty good job of summarizing everything. I do one the multi-dimensional array aspect of my life.

Laurence Bradford 3:01
Yeah. And I love that. I can't wait to talk about that also. But let's go back in time a bit. What were you doing before you were working at Microsoft?

Vidya Srinivasan 3:09
I was studying. So I graduated from my bachelor's in computer science and engineering back in India. Through my, I would say, sophomore year, I was pretty convinced that I want to study further. So I came to the US to pursue my Master's in computer science from NC State University. I loved the human, you know, computer interest interaction aspect of computing. So I was studying I graduated. actually know when I was in grad school, I got an internship at Microsoft. So I came here I intern, they gave me a full time offer. So I came straight back after as soon as I graduated.

Laurence Bradford 3:44
Wow, that's really exciting. And you've been at Microsoft, how long now? Five and a half years now, five and a half years. Great. And when you started, what were you doing? And you said, you were an intern and you got a job like after school, but how have you kind of moved up in at Microsoft, so No, you definitely have.

Vidya Srinivasan 4:01
Yeah. So I started as a program manager intern. So to be honest, when I interviewed for Microsoft, I did not really know that there was a job category called program management. Right? Because you know, and most students whom I speak to today are also in the same boat that they always think, Oh, I'm pursuing computer science, the only job I have as a developer where I sit on code all day, right? So I was interested in coding, obviously, but I was also interested in the other aspects of building a product, such as the design side of things, the user experience side of things, the business side of things, right. So when I interviewed interestingly, the interviewer told me that you make a fine developer, but I think you will make a really good program manager. So he encouraged me to actually look more into what a program management role is, and then come and intern at Microsoft and I did that and I absolutely fell in love with the job aspects offer program manager so I came straight back as a program manager after I graduate Dude, and then now I'm a Senior Program Manager at Microsoft.

Laurence Bradford 5:03
And for the listeners, could you describe what a program manager is? Because I know, especially for myself, when I first started off teaching myself how to code like you said, I only thought there was one path, I thought I had to become a web developer or software engineer. And that was it. I didn't realize how many different options there were. So could you tell us a little bit about what you do as a program manager?

Vidya Srinivasan 5:23
Sure. I see the way I describe programs/ Product Manager like you know, different companies use different terminology. Honestly, we use Program Manager at Microsoft, I think some of the other companies does Google Facebook, they use Product Manager. So the definition is a bit ambiguous for us to go from company to company and industry to industry. But net net as a program manager is responsible for everything that goes from ideation, building strategy to shipping and getting customer feedback and everything in between. Right. So I think of as a program manager, I think of myself as the product owner who comes up you know, even before the rest of the team is even thinking about what to do, as a PM, you identify the problem space, you identify the opportunities that exist in that space, you build the strategy, you build the vision, then you convince you know, you go and partner with your design engineering and you know, other teams to prototype build it, then you are in charge of shipping and talking to customers getting feedback and then improving and iterating it. So as you can see, you go from you go through the entire product lifecycle not once but multiple times as you do it over several services. Right. So, an interesting definition of program managers, you are the mini CEO of your product.

Laurence Bradford 6:34
Yeah, I love that. And I and I also really liked what you said about how different companies could have different titles and it could maybe be similar role with similar similar responsibilities, but companies could kind of refer to it as different things. And I also think especially with product management, it could also really vary based on the size of the company, the industry what the products you know, your your building, are I I have a friend for instance, Who was a product manager at a company that did like surgical equipment manufacturing, so she would go to hospitals and interact with doctors and watch them do surgery. And it was like they're, you know, they're building like physical products right to us.

Vidya Srinivasan 7:16
Absolutely. I mean, that's, I think that is the fun thing. And the unique thing about being a programmer as Product Manager, because you sit in the intersection of technology, user experience, which is design and business, right. So you are able to get a complete experience of, you know, the, the breadth of the product instead of just the depth, which is kind of what we would experience when you go to like some some roles as a developer, right? You go deep into it, but as a program manager, you try to like get the complete to birth experience.

Laurence Bradford 7:47
Yeah, and so you never and looking back at your life to double check, but you've always been a program manager. So even though you have a degree in computer science, a bachelor's and a Master's You went right into program management.

Vidya Srinivasan 8:01
Correct? Yes. Because I think I, I'm glad I have a degree in computer science because I feel, again, depending upon your industry and company, to be a successful program manager, you have to have really solid technical skills, you need to understand how a product would be built in order to come up with a design that is worth building. Right? So even though I don't code on a day in day out basis, I understand code. I look at code, I write algorithms, right? You figure out what kind of data structure is good for a specific service, you have to think about performance, you have to think about, you know, accessibility, you have to think about everything that goes into making a successful product. Right. So I understand code and I'm glad to have a technical background because I consider myself a technical program manager. And you know, because I am, I think more interested in the technical side of how you what goes into building a product than anything else.

Laurence Bradford 8:57
Yes, super fascinating. And again, I love how We're you know, we're getting to show people that there's not a one. One track path, I think, is to say, but you know, you don't have to, you know, get, you know, get coding skills and become a software engineer. Like there's other options out there that are still technical, and it can maybe incorporate some other things that, you know, person really enjoys so.

Vidya Srinivasan 9:18
absolutely, and and I feel everybody needs to understand technology like it is, irrespective of which path you take after that, if you have the basic fundamentals at your fingertips, that is always helpful. And that will always help you make good decisions and building usable products. Right. I have a friend of mine who is a UI designer, but he understands code and he codes so what he does is, as he designs he prototypes it, even though it is not his code that is checked into the system. But he's able to rapidly prototype things because he knows how to code. Right? So I understand technology. I can call somebody bluff soon enough if they come up and tell me that oh, this is not possible, what is this possible? Because I know how you would be built. I know how you would be building that.

Laurence Bradford 10:08
Yeah, exactly. So that Yeah, I love how, how enthusiastic you are about that. And this is segwaying perfectly, I think into the next thing I want to talk about, which is all of your hobbies and outside projects outside of work. So I'm curious, have you always just been this industrious or? Or has it been something that you have developed, like as you got older or as a high school student, or middle school student? Were you always very involved?

Vidya Srinivasan 10:34
I think I was always very involved. And part of this goes back to my cultural background, I would say. So I'm a South Indian, right as South Indians. Typically, they put you They always put you in school plus some form of creative art. Like it's like a minbar. Okay, if you're only studying then people are like, GRE only studying. You know, I know it sounds It's a bit stereotypical, but that is about is my background. So my mom put me in music school when I was two and a half years old. So she put me in, you know, basically musical at the same time because she was interested in music and she wanted me to pursue music. And that's where it started. So right from that age on I've been you know, singing and as a part of that you get exposed to a lot of other clubs, bands, which are looking for singers, you go sing with them. So right from my school age, I was, you know, participating in music shows, and my parents are both bankers and they have annual conferences and you know, get togethers and I used to go and sing the invocation song every year. And I was so proud because my name used to come in, you know, the program brochure a lot, you know, so, I've always been exposed to doing more than just going to school. And at some point, probably during middle school I started getting being I was I was interested in leading clubs, right.

Vidya Srinivasan 11:58
So back in the day, I used to be a part Have a national service scheme, which does volunteer work conducting blood camps and all of that. And then later on, I became a part of the Lions Club sister group of the Lions Club International, which is called the Leo Club, which is a youth group where you, you know, recruit a team, you build a committee, you kind of commit yourself to attend your and a specific area and go and do good things. And we were doing a book sweeps for underprivileged kids, we used to collect books from people who had more of them, and then go and give to the school kids, you know, stuff like that. And I started, I felt it felt good, being a part of multiple things because I sure was learning a lot. Right. And thinking though, has always been with me, so I continue singing. Right now, going back to your original question. I do a bunch of things. So I am I still think obviously, I sing with a couple of bands in the Seattle area. We usually partner with a nonprofit organization and raise funds for them.

Vidya Srinivasan 12:57
I am an active member of the NATO Borg Institute, especially the Grace Hopper conference, I've been sitting on their conference leadership for this would be the fifth year. Right? So I chair tracks for them. I've in the past, I've chaired the open source pay track student opportunity lab. Last year, I chaired the human computer interaction track. And I just heard today that they want me to come and share the same track for next year. So I'm super excited to go back and share the human computer interaction track again. I also love hackathons, I think hackathon for me is just going back to my roots of my love for building products. You know, I do it as a part of my day job on a more extended period hackathon. You do it for 24 to 48 hours, right? So I started hacking during my second year at Microsoft, when I was working with the Ammar team, and they are a Silicon Valley startup and they love hackathons. And, you know, that kind of got into me and I've been doing that ever since now. I go and Keynote hackathons and you know, mentor students to you know, do fun stuff. Do you hackathons and all of that. I also speak, I speak about technology. I speak about inclusive design I speak about, you know, my my role as a program manager. I speak about careers in tech, I speak about my experience as a brown women in tech. So I speak about a whole lot of things. speaking, I stumbled upon it, I would say, it started as a need for me to build my own confidence and eventually became a thing I got addicted to. So yeah, I somehow find time to do all these things and still remain sane.

Laurence Bradford 14:32
That was going to be my next question. I was like, how do you find how do you find the time to to do all these things outside of work? And not to mention, I mean, I did say this in the beginning, which we'll talk about in a bit, but you're also a mother as well. So you have a family. You have all these things going on at work outside of work related to work, like during the week. What kind of I know I know, there's no average day but you Usually, how often are you going? Like what I mean is like you wake up and then what time? Do you kind of make it back home at night? Or do you sort of like, Are you someone who sort of like leaves and maybe goes home during the day goes back out and does other things. So you're kind of like taking breaks during the day, like, what is your schedule sort of look like?

Vidya Srinivasan 15:16
So my schedule was very different until a few months ago, which because my baby was back home with her grandparents. I think my members incredibly fortunate because I had both our parents come and support us until my baby turned one. You know, later on, she's now going to daycare. So my schedule is very different now. But I get it around like 830, I would say but I leave exactly at five because I have to go pick her up from daycare. My husband does see drop offs and I do the pickups. But once we put her to sleep, we do log back in if there are things that need to be taken care of for that day. Otherwise, you know, you get in your next morning and then do it and also this day view everybody is mobile. So if there are urgent things that need immediate attention, I think business Never, at least I am still learning. I'm never completely disconnected. I would say from board, like if there's immediate things that need to be taken care of, I don't mind jumping into it and you know, taking care of it right now. And then. So my average day is, you know, pretty straightforward. I would say, I definitely value family time.

Vidya Srinivasan 16:18
So as soon as we get back home, I pick her up go earlier, you know, give her dinner, all of that as soon as my husband comes, though, we make it a point to not do anything else and focus on her and, you know, having dinner together and sharing what happened, how was everyone's day and until she goes to bed, but after that it's began, you know, make time for work, I would say, but the way I structure my other activities is, I think the number one thing is I don't do it because I have to do it. I do it because I want to do it. Right. I mean, there's a big difference when you have to do something and you want to do something. So for me, I love doing these things. So I don't see them as a burden or an extra thing. Like I love singing. I love speaking. I know hacking so but I want So I'm very meticulous in organizing my calendar. I'm very, very meticulous in making lists and making sure that two things don't overlap, so to speak, I definitely make sure that I don't have anything else big, you know, super big commitments that week. But I don't take two speaking engagements in the same week, sometimes, you know, edge cases it happens. But for the most part, I tried to organize my calendar in a way that it's, I'm still able to do justice, because there's one thing to do it, there's one thing to do, it's really good. So I believe that if I haven't been doing something, I want to make sure that it's, you know, like most quality so that they call me back and that's probably the reason why I keep getting calls from some of these organizations because I make sure that I do my due diligence in an honor their time as well as my time.

Laurence Bradford 17:45
Yeah, I really like that being meticulous about your calendar and really thinking about how you plan and structure things. So aside from the speaking engagements, and you mentioned not doing more than one in a given week, is there anything else like any other like little rules That you sort of have that they don't have to be like hard written rules but something else like that when it comes to planning your days.

Vidya Srinivasan 18:06
Mm hmm. I do a lot of preparation for my speaking gigs when I'm driving.

Laurence Bradford 18:13
Oh, really?

Vidya Srinivasan 18:13
Always yeah, because I, I used to initially again, I think this is where practice makes one perfect. In the initial days I used to script all my talks intently. I used to record them rerecord them video sometimes to see how my body languages how my tone is. Right Am I pausing at the right instance you know all of that, but with practice you know of doing this like what I've been speaking for almost five years now I started speaking they already got into Microsoft. So, you kind of get better at it you know that Oh, these topics? I can do an impromptu talk for 20 minutes right now, these topics Not really I got a certain practice, right I have I have to collect my thoughts. So I script them down. Of course I write down this outline of Okay, this is how my talk There's going to be but I rehearse them when I'm driving. Because that's, that's like my me time. Right? Otherwise I just hear the podcast when I'm driving, but whenever I have a talk, I rehearse them over there. And my husband's also a techie. So that is super helpful. I would say he is. He is actually my, my big pillar, you know, my, my big rock, I would say, because he's extremely supportive of everything I want to do. Right? And he's an equal parent. He's an equal partner. So I can do these things without feeling guilty that, Oh, I'm taking the Saturday off and leaving my baby with my husband and coming on speaking, you know, so I think there is no sense of guilt or whatsoever because he's extremely supportive there.

Laurence Bradford 19:43
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Laurence Bradford 22:00
Well, that's amazing. And that's so awesome that you're in this situation. And I do like the tip about practicing while driving. I live in New York though, and I and I never drive and I guess I practicing on the subway would be with everyone around right would be a bit different. But for people who live in areas where they drive, which I think is like probably most listeners, that's definitely a really great tip. And I feel like you could also do that for other things like a meeting that you have, or maybe you're going to ask for a promotion. You could practice what you're going to say in the card as well.

Vidya Srinivasan 22:33
Absolutely right. I mean, having a good support system, making sure that your day is structured your weakest structure your month is structured and practicing whenever because every every task request practicing like you rightly identified, if you have to give an exact presentation you need to practice right if you have to sound professional, you need to practice so finding any you know, time that is important. But you can squeeze in on practice I think will definitely go a long way.

Laurence Bradford 22:57
Yeah, I love that and always we spoke about your speaking engagements and you know, usually outside of work. Of course, you could also, as you said, Do like an executive presentation, which would be, you know, at work and involve public speaking. Is there anything else outside of public speaking that you've really practiced or really like refined your craft at?

Vidya Srinivasan 23:18
Well, my singing, which I've been doing forever, but again, I think the beauty of music is there is no end game to it. You can never say that. Okay, by today, I am the perfect singer. It's not a good thing because there are more channels as there's more types of singing. There's so much evolution to music, right? So I also if I have if I have a show, if I have to sing some beard, I also practice that in my car. So as you can see, car drives with me are a lot of fun.

Laurence Bradford 23:43
Yeah. Yeah, it's great. Um, so I definitely want to talk a bit about being a mom in tech and some of the things I've been very fortunate to talk to you about in the past. However, I know not all the listeners have read the articles. So Just for some context against gentle listeners, one of the actions over a year ago now, one of the first stories I wrote that featured You are the first was defined is called defying stereotypes as a pregnant woman in tech. And you spoke a lot about I mean, your full time, you know, your work at Microsoft, and you went on this challenge where you did like one empowering thing every month during your pregnancy. Could you talk about that a little bit?

Vidya Srinivasan 24:26
Sure. So this started, as I've heard about stereotypes and pregnancy and motherhood a lot even before I got pregnant, right, because I've been exposed to Grace Hopper and other important conferences. I've been going to them for a long time now. But I couldn't empathize it with it as much as I could. When I was pregnant myself. I wasn't able to associate well with Pam, why would they think like that, you know, but when I got pregnant, I noticed that Wow, there is so many perceived notions and stereotypes. Write, for example. I've always liked speaking. So even when I was pregnant, I did not find a reason as to why I should not go and speak. I'm a techie. So I go and speak about technical things. And I went to this event and I had a lot of rolling and one person, one woman, she came up to me and she was like, it's raining so badly. And you're so pregnant, and why are you doing this? Shouldn't you be home instead? Right, I'm like, first of all, it's Seattle. It rains, period. Second of all, amputate my belly shows, period. Third of all, I'm perfectly fine. Why should I not come and speak about the things that I love? Right? So then these are like some small examples, right? And, and I was like, this is crazy, because just because a woman is pregnant. Just because a woman has a kid, doesn't mean she doesn't get to do the things that she loves doing. Right?

Vidya Srinivasan 25:52
So I just, I just continue doing the things that I was doing before. Such as singing, singing at concerts, and Speaking and chatting tracks at conferences, you know, having lunches at work, shaping things at work. So I was not even doing anything out of the way. I was just doing the things that I would normally do if I were not pregnant. But I just made it. I did not make any efforts to hide the fact that I was pregnant. Right? And I just said, okay, for every month, I'm gonna do one empowering thing, right? And I'm gonna see, can I do it? Or can I not do it? And I'm gonna see how things played out from there. That was what the article was all about, right? Because I just feel there was just so much a stereotype associated and we got to break that because the same stereotypes extend when a woman becomes a mom and gives birth and comes back to work, right. So that's why there are terms like mommy tax mommy penalty. For whatever reason, you assume that because a woman is now a mom. She only cares about her family. Right there are crazy statistics such as you place a man and a woman. When a man becomes a dad, he is seen as the breadwinner.

Vidya Srinivasan 27:09
Whereas when a woman becomes a mom, she is seen as a caretaker and breadwinner, his status is elevated was it but it caretakers status is, you know, dropped. So I think people have to consciously realize that, hey, men can be breadwinners, and caretakers, women can be breadwinners, and caretakers. It's all a part and parcel of, you know, evolution, I would say, right. And what is even more ironical for me as something something as natural as childbirth that women have been doing for thousands and thousands of years. Comes with such a baggage of preconceived notions and stereotypes in 2017.

Laurence Bradford 27:47
Yeah, yeah. Wow. And I, yes. Okay. So you mentioned that about the breadwinner and men versus women being perceived differently. I remember seeing a study at some point, saying how like, It was either when a man gets married or has their first child it could have been getting married but it was like it research had found that men were more likely to get a raise like after they get married or after they have a child it's one of those two and then for the women are like the exact opposite like it was like they were way less likely to be given a promotion or raise once they were married because it was perceived that they would be like having kids sooner than maybe leaving like the workplace soon. And it was like before they even you know, they could even be engaged or something and it was already like working against them.

Vidya Srinivasan 28:31
Exactly right. I know you're spot on. Like I have come across studies that say for every dollar a man woman earns I think 96 cents, but I'm almost at 76 cents, just which is which is crazy, right? And there's like lot of I've heard firsthand and these are not even things that you know, I read I've heard firsthand from my friends who are also moms and as a part of I'm also a part of some pretty vocal online groups. Bear, we're all moms, we're all in tech, we all love, you know, both of our aspects of our life, right. And these are all firsthand experiences of where a woman has passed for promotion, because she is now a mom. Women has not given important projects because they assume that she might probably want to go home. Right? So go home earlier, and, you know, cook instead. So this is like, way too many perceived notions, I'm gonna have a friend who's who's in marketing, she was passed over for a couple of important conference travels, because they assumed that she might not want to travel. So I think my rule of numbers, ask, please ask like, Don't assume, maybe it is true that she didn't want to travel. But ask her do Don't assume. Right? Because for the most part, people do want to succeed in their, you know, carrier, I do want to get promoted, women do want to get promoted, right? Women do want to become leaders. So there's just we just have to break these stereotypes and these perceived assumptions, I would say.

Laurence Bradford 29:56
Yeah, and that segues very well into the second article that I wrote featuring you that talked about succeeding back in the workplace, I think you called it your fourth called the fourth trimester. So after returning to work after maternity leave, so I'd love if you could talk just a little bit about like some of the tips that you share in the article about returning to work. I know you also talked about like, even before you went on maternity leave, like while you were still working, like some things you did to set yourself up for success. I'm sure there's women, you know, listening who either have had a child recently or plan to have one soon or, you know, maybe just even years in the future. This is all like super, you know, helpful and relevant. And same, you know, for men, obviously, who are married to women that work in tech, so, or work just period.

Vidya Srinivasan 30:41
Yeah, right. Yeah. So I would say before you transition to maternity leave, right? I mean, I have always been very vocal with my, you know, team here at Microsoft, and I think they were very, there was no perceived assumptions in my case, which was which was good. Right, they did not assume that Oh, just because she's pregnant. Now, she doesn't want to leave this important project. In fact, I went on maternity leave on July 15. And the first week of July, we did a big launch. Right. And that may be announced a major feature that got coverage in Wall Street Journal and verge and TechCrunch. Right. So they're not assume that, and I was also pretty vocal that I hate. You know, unless I come and tell you that I can't do it, please don't assume. So setting the expectations, I think will definitely help and try writing down a clear transition plan before you go on maternity will, I think show that? Okay, she's gone for so many months or so many weeks. And then once she comes back, I think that also give your team some time to new lower. Okay, what are the types of projects that you want to work on when you come back? Do you want to come back to work full time? Or do you want to come back part time, right. So it all depends upon one's unique situation, I would say with childcare and their recovery and their child's health and there's just way too many factors, you know, partners, parental leave policies and all of that, but communicating these things and making these very transparent I think will definitely help.

Vidya Srinivasan 32:02
And, and I think it's better to have these discussions and think through this as much as possible before you go on maternity than after, I would say. And once you do that, right, when you have open conversations when you set realistic realistic expectations type of projects you want to take on also talk about your career development, like we do something called connects in Microsoft, where you talk about, okay, how has the last quarter been, what do you want to happen in the next quarter and all of that? So I was ready, you know, we had an open discussion about Okay, what is my level now? When do I want to get promoted? What will take me there and all of that, that really helped me? Because I initiated this discussions it also showed my leadership team that okay, she's still she's still interested and she's in this like, hundred percent, right? It's not that there's gonna be a part time thing for her anymore. She is in this and during maternity leave, right. I think the one big thing everyone deals with is FOMO. Like fear of missing out, especially first timers, I dealt with that, too. I was very scared that oh my god, I'm gonna be gone for, you know, four months. Everyone's gonna Forgive me, but that's not true. And also, your pet project that you're working on, you're like, all of a sudden transitioning it to somebody else. And you know, are they gonna do a good job or not do a good job? Or are they gonna like, you know, check me on the project and all of that, right? So, what helped me and the advice that I got from other moms was, when you are on maternity be with your baby, hundred percent forget everything else. When you come back, you will find the right place for you. You will do it. Right. So and that I think is true. Because if I was overthinking about all of the FOMO, and what am I missing out, then I don't think I would have been able to enjoy my time with my baby as much as I did. So don't really freak out about what you're missing out, but rather plan about how would you tackle this once you come back? Right?

Vidya Srinivasan 33:44
Mommy track is a big thing. Mommy track basically is people assuming that Oh, because you're a mom, you're not interested in a carrier anymore. Because you're a mom, you're not interested in promotions anymore, travel anymore. All of that stuff, which we spoke about before. And this is sadly too common, especially in space and time. Like tech, so, and this will cause a lot of, you know, anxiety for a lot of us, right? The biggest thing, the thing, the biggest thing that we can do for ourselves is watching and being vocal that's helped me a lot. And also there is a level of awareness that we have to spread. Right? That is the reason I go and speak about my life as a woman in tech my life as a mom in tech, and have discussions have panel discussions about what what is life look like after you have a baby after you have multiple babies? What does life look like when you have a baby with, you know, special needs? What does life look like when you're a single mom? Right? The situation is so different for each of these things. And the more you spread awareness about, these are the type of people who exist and this is nothing is uncommon here. And there shouldn't be any stereotypes or perceived assumptions. I think. The more people get aware, the more they will at least realize and the more they will fight the unconscious bias. Right. A lot of this is training. We have training for You know, other types of biases but I think we also need to have some sort of training about parenthood and motherhood.

Laurence Bradford 35:06
Yeah. Wow you just shared so much awesome helpful information and honestly as you as you were talking and you were saying FOMO and you know people getting anxious about or women that are going to be leaving on maternity leave getting anxious about what they may miss out on in the pet projects and you know, if there's gonna be a place for them when they return I'm not even you know, I'm not even planning on having children anytime soon and I'm getting anxiety I'm like, Oh my gosh, like I can't even imagine like the like the stress that would be honestly like to be gone for even just four weeks or six weeks or two months. And you know, and then to think of you know, the the kind of situations you were bringing up like I can definitely see how it would be a really tough time and, but I really liked what you said just like spending the full time your full focus full attention on being with your newborn and then just trusting that when you get back. They'll be a place for you. And you know what I feel like if it's if honestly for some reason, there's Not it's probably not an organization you want to be at anyway.

Vidya Srinivasan 36:02
Exactly, exactly right there. The underlying point over here is there needs to be a sense of transparency and trust, not just from you to the employer, but from the employer to you, right. And if there's an organization that sees mothers not as a liability, but as an asset, they will support you, they will encourage you if they don't, you probably should not be working there. Right. And it goes beyond. So I spoke about the things that you can do from an internal perspective or from an organization perspective, they have to come and meet you somewhere to like, paid maternity leave. It is so extremely critical, like my heart goes out to those moms who are, you know, who have to go back to work in four weeks and in five weeks, sometimes in days like they In my opinion, neurons are some of the bravest people because I it was so hard for me to leave my baby home after four months and come to work. The first day I cried. Right, because it's a very emotional thing. It's an extremely emotional day this tiny human being was with you 24 About seven, all of a sudden somebody else has to take care of that baby, right. And in my case, it was my own mom taking care of my baby. But even then it was so hard. So imagine if somebody has to leave their babies with an external nanny or a daycare when the baby is four or five, six weeks old, right? So paid maternity leave is a must not just maternity paid parental leave that need the time off for bonding to write. And when you give parental leaves for dads that also shows that, hey, it is not uncommon that a dad takes off when he or a man takes off and he becomes a dad.

Vidya Srinivasan 37:35
Right that will set the standard right because if you just give maternity leave for moms and people assume that Oh, she is going to take off it's just she is just she but when he comes into the picture, then it kind of becomes normalized at some point. And other things like comprehensive insurance, hygienic mother's room to help moms pump right back up care flexible options to transition back like these are all incredibly important things that can make or break once decision to come back to work. While a lot of people deal with, you know, make a choice between do I take care of my baby? Or do I, you know, compromise on my childcare situation and then go and work a lot of them skew to take care of the baby. And that is that is rightful on their part, right. So, an organization, any organization that sees more as an asset will definitely provide them with all the support and all the flexibility they need to have a smooth transition.

Laurence Bradford 38:28
Yeah, I mean, I'm just like, blown away. Like when you're talking about some of these things that organizations don't have, are these these resources for women that are returning to work and like, oh, man, it's, uh, you know, again, I'm not even in a, you know, I just feel so much empathy as well towards women that are having to go back to work without taking that time off. And when you told the story about leaving your home without it's making me emotional Now, I know in a very empathetic person.

Vidya Srinivasan 38:57
But yeah, exactly. Right. Like I think everyone needs to feel this empathy. And if everyone feels like, you know, my favorite thing is like it they say it takes a village to raise a child. Right? Oftentimes, we just think of our children and who are in our village, but we forget, we forget that we are a part of somebody's village, right? If there is a member of my team, and even though I am if, say, for example, I was not a mom, I am still you know, I can make or break her day. Right? So we just have to be empathetic, we just have to, like, you know, keep aside our biases, unconscious or conscious and be more empathetic and see what can we do to help others and if everybody does their part, half the issues we face today won't even exist.

Laurence Bradford 39:41
Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you so much video for coming on. We went a bit over but I think this was just such a powerful and great conversation. And honestly, I think the first time I've really talked about this on the podcast, so thank you for I mean, I've talked about kind of related issues, I think, but the first time really talking about like, parental leave and going back To a tech job after taking parental leave and all this stuff, so I really appreciate you coming on and sharing this and I think like, like I'm very lightened by this and I think a lot of listeners will be too. But where can people find you online?

Vidya Srinivasan 40:15
Sure. I have a website it is www.vidyasriniwasan.info so my full name dot info. I'm also pretty active on Twitter, you know, LinkedIn. So my handle is on Twitter is @vidsreenivasan my last name. So on my website has hyperlinks to all these social media sites.

Laurence Bradford 40:34
All right, amazing. Thank you again for coming on.

Vidya Srinivasan 40:36
Thank you so much for having me on the show. I so totally enjoy talking to you, Laurence.

Laurence Bradford 40:46
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